"35x ROI": Make Your Program Irresistible to Payers

What if your program returned $35 for every $1 invested? No grants. No pilot fatigue. Just real ROI—and real funding. In this episode of Outcomes, I sat down with John Gorman. Medicare Advantage legend. Founder of the first SDOH-only venture fund. And a straight shooter on what actually works. We unpacked: → Why most social care pitches fall flat → The CHW model that saved $2,500+ per member → How to speak CFO, not charity → The #1 mistake that kills payer deals This isn’t a dream. It’s happening. If you want your program funded—not just applauded— This episode is your playbook. 00:00 – Intro: Why Social Care Funding Fails (And What to Do Instead) 03:15 – The $250K Patient Problem & Geisinger’s 35x ROI Food Program 06:50 – Getting Health Plans to Say Yes: What Really Works 10:20 – Internet Access = 500% Boost in Engagement 13:00 – Metrics That Matter: What Actuaries Actually Look For 15:05 – Real Attribution vs. Correlation in SDOH Programs 18:00 – Dual Eligibles: The Most Profitable (and Neglected) Population 21:30 – Why CHWs Are the Ultimate ROI Unlock 25:10 – Designing Dignified, Culturally Competent Interventions 30:00 – What Most Programs Get Wrong About Housing, Food, and Transportation 36:00 – Scaling Without Losing Impact: A Blueprint for Health Plans 43:30 – Final Takeaways: Actuarial Rigor, Strategic Positioning, and What’s Next